Behringer against music tech media round…, including allegations Loopop stopped doing reviews because they don’t send him free gear
For several years, Behringer has been taking intense action against music tech media and has been spreading wild claims on social media to make them small. Including without “advertising no reviews.”
Now they have chosen a specific medium, more precisely, YouTuber and music tech expert Loopop, known for its intensive in-depth tutorials and reviews.
Behringer VS Loopop
The whole topic started with a comment from Behringer’s social media team on a customer’s post about the Toro analog Synthesizer.
Interesting comment. It’s the 5th best selling product, not sure this is called a flop :-). I’m sure Starsky will be reviewing it as, while Loopop is not reviewing product as we don’t send out free units.
In this, Behringer claims that Loopop has lost all review interest in their products because they won’t send him free gear. A steep thesis, as I would say in my non-native writing tongue. Loopop promptly provided an answer to this. He says it is a lie, and they blocked/deleted his answer on Facebook. On X (ex-Twitter), he wrote:
Hey, since you blocked my response, I’ll share it here. I saw you spreading lies on your Facebook group, that I won’t review your gear because you don’t send it for free, when actually you offered and I refused. Should I share your email offering?
Further
This is my response they deleted/blocked:
Hey Behringer this is Ziv – Loopop, please stop spreading the lie that I stopped reviewing your units because you wouldn’t send me any for free.
I first reviewed your synths without any contact with your (Model D, Neutron). At that point you offered to send me a few others, which I accepted and disclosed.
When you made the offensive video about Peter Kirn and started copying affordable products from existing manufacturers with zero innovation (swing), I became disgusted with your corporate culture, which I see now includes spreading lies like you did now.
A couple of years ago, you disclosed to me your entire roadmap and offered aynthing I’d like, and I refused because of what I mentioned above, as I explained to Dan. I’m happy to share this correspondence if you insist on lying about why I stopped reviewing your gear.
If you apologize and at some point change your ways I would be happy to explore interesting affordable innovative products, whether you send them to me or not – they’re not that expensive compared to the time and costs of making my videos.”
More
After publishing the article, Ziv, aka Loopop, confirmed that Behringer had edited it several times before, which suggests which of the two parties lied.
Other Media/Content Creators’ Reactions
This caused unrest on social media with other music tech media and YouTubers. For example, Benn Jordan tweeted a GIF tweeted a GIF with a man wearing sunglasses to hide his tears with the caption, “Behringer passive aggressively pretending they’re not pp hurt”.
Or BoBeats writes on Twitter that “Behringer lying doesn’t surprise me at all”. SonicState also issued a statement on this. Surprisingly, Behringer’s “archenemy”, Peter Kirn, briefly commented on it also.
My Statement
I’m siding with Loopop. I also feel the same way as Nick from SonicState. I haven’t published a Behringer review since 2019. Not because the products are good or bad, just because of how they treat media. It’s about mutual respect, trust, and more. The PR/marketing department has been missing all of this for many years.
And on the subject: Behringer does not ship free gear. Haha, a good joke; I have to laugh. In 2020, Behringer’s PR department asked me in a longer mail if I would like to do a showcase video of the MonoPoly Synthesizer.
They wanted the video released on my channels as soon as possible: “The sooner, the better.” So exactly the time when the synth became available at dealers. It’s been three years now. It may be that Behringer has changed his strategy. Edit: yes they changed according to a communication between Robin Vincent of Molten Music Technology and Behringer on Facebook:
On the other hand, I continue with the Bnews coverage because it’s part of my regular job, and many readers are interested in the topic. But also those who “hate” them but still read them.
I think there are several points overlooked here.
First, it is true that Loopop ad BoBeats (and many of the other “big names”) very rarely review anything unless they receive it for free or a huge discount.
Second, those “synthfluencers” should under the YouTube terms of service add the “paid promotion” tag. Most don’t. Loopop never does and instead offers up a canned excuse. So these guys are themselves in a gray zone when it comes to ethics.
Third, there is a lot of virtuous dogpiling when it comes to Behringer. It is so easy to hate on them to gain a few interbet points.
Finally, none of these critics ever dare mention any points of criticism about other manufactureres eben where that is fair because they won;t be sent any more free gear.
The only videos I’ll watch are titled “no talking”. I prefer to match that with a spec sheet I can quickly read for myself.
Anything else more or less falls into ” infotainment” and “paid advertisement” and it’s going to be less than honest and skew polite or at least neutral to keep the “free stuff” coming. I mean that’s why they got into the whole thing to begin with right? Lol
Your response says more about you than loopop or the others.
Really? How 4 sentences say more about a random commenter than Loopop? If anything, it is YOUR response that it open ended and not definitive, leaving to the imagination of the reader to figure out something wrong with it. Same with the comment below, a snarky remark belittling someone.
This is why the influencer thing is rotten: Some person who already the influencer has created rapport and trust is now defending them everywhere. These type of person not only do (buy) whatever the influencer say, but also these people defend them everywhare they are mentioned in a negative way. If this sounds familiar it is because this happens in politics as well.
Your World must be a small one
I am honest…but I am anti capitalist so I do not monetize my channel, and I give honest takes even at my expense or others….because of that no one has ever offered to send free stuff to review….I have made everyone mad.
“it is true that Loopop ad BoBeats (and many of the other “big names”) very rarely review anything unless they receive it for free or a huge discount“
No, its not true, the cost of the synths is negligible compered to the cost of making a video, Loopop not dealing with behringer because he don’t like the way they do things. behringer sends free synths to all big reviewers so this is mute statement anyway.
“those “synthfluencers” should under the YouTube terms of service add the “paid promotion” tag”
No, paid promotion is a promotion that been paid to be promoted. Getting a synth to review without payment is not considered paid promotion.
“Third, there is a lot of virtuous dogpiling when it comes to Behringer. It is so easy to hate on them to gain a few interbet points”
No, its not about hate and anyway its behringer who comment about loopop, not the other way around so if anything its behringer that use “hate” to promote themselves.
“none of these critics ever dare mention any points of criticism about other manufactureres eben where that is fair because they won;t be sent any more free gear.“
Nonsense, loopop always have a long list of pro and cons. Check any of its videos and the video comments, many of the cons mentioned are a deal breaker for some. Youtubers are not stupid they know that if they want present issues they will loose views as not being objective.
All of what you wrote is not based on actual facts, in the same manner we can assume you got paid to write this comment.
“No, paid promotion is a promotion that been paid to be promoted. Getting a synth to review without payment is not considered paid promotion.”
Not true. It still counts as paid promotion according to the rules.
You might not think it should, but ot does and I think it should. Getting anything of value may influence what you cover, when, and how you feel about a product, thus there is high potential that the company giving the reviewer benefits financially from it, and the reviewer not only get a free synth, it also results in paid views, it is of none relevance if it doesn’t cover the production cost of the video.
but all reviews are biased because also the reviews from non-paid or not-given YouTubers are baised in this way that they mostly talk about products they enjoy. I don’t see any YouTuber (small, big, unknown) talking really bad about it like “don’t buy this sh..t…, I sent back because…”. Most of these reviews are how amazing the boxes are.
Bad Gear
“the cost of the synths is negligible compered to the cost of making a video”
Really? REALLYY?!?! Omg… this is first, a blatant lie and second, precisely why this is a bad/murky practice. Why a blatant lie? Loopop reviewd the Roland S-1 ($200) but also the 3RD Wave synth ($5000). Now reread the question with this information in context.
Second, the influencers are just dodging the YouTube terms of service. Not just synth influencers but ALL influencers that sell something be it pills, cremes, exercise rutines, sneakers, etc. Unless it is the part that you can SKIP which all do, the video is the product they want to sell. Again, there is a reason why Bobeats stopped being a PSYCHOLOGIST/PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR to become a synthfluencer…. it seems to be very lucrative and the synth companies and influencers are not being honest about their relation.
If you think reviews are that lucrative, head over to Social Blade and see what creators are making from YouTube Ads (+/-). It’s an estimation but it’s pretty close to the real numbers.
Remove the taxes, social security, bills, etc. from this. https://socialblade.com/
in SocialBlade it say LooPop can make between $124 to $2000 a month. Thats too unstable to be an income to live comfortably so there must be money coming elsewhere, but, when you 100% a youtuber there is money to made elsewhere and US/EU law or TY TOC cannot prove you are adhering to them.
Also, I like my new name “SynthfluencersArePAYOLA”, please do not change to the original one. It is my view and opinion and for sure many others share it with me.
I don’t want names that are negative, attacking or judging people. If you need this, you can do that in other places, not here.
Talking about money: if you get $2000, you must account 40% or more for taxes (independent), social insurance, pay for rent, food. Of the $2000, there’s like $500 or so left over.
Getting a 200$ synth for free is negligible compared to the cost of making a loopop video. A dealer discount of even 30% of something that cost 5k$ is an investment of 3.5K$, He may resell it for the same price he paid.
Being a youtuber is usually not that lucrative, even if you are good and work very hard, only a very low percentage see real income from it.
This is very simple. Loopop was always transparent about the relationship with the companies .Berhinger pissed off Loopop choose not to deal with them so they accused him of being in it for the free stuff. This is nonsense.
If you are getting a synth without payment for review purposes then you are getting a “pecuniary advantage” and in many if not most countries in the world you need to pay taxes for these.
Reviews of gear sent by the manufacturer is not paid promotion. All magazines and trade publications work this way. Gear reviews are not a lucrative business. It takes a significant amount of time to learn this gear, write and edit reviews. It wouldn’t be worth reviewed effort to purchase the gear. However, they should be required to return the gear or purchase it at wholesale price.
Then you will see even more advertising about “sponsored by retailer X …) And unless you are a channel that gets 100k-200k views on each video, in most cases it is a losing money work where you have invested like a week in. The money generated by the YouTube ads is almost nothing in the music tech world as it’s a super niche compared to other topics.
Exactly. They should at least declare 1) the manufacturer sent the synth and 2) what happens to the synth if they must return it, keep it etc. What we all want is transparency regarding WHY the influencer thinks making Xor Y review of a certain X or Y synth is worthwhile “If they need to get paid”.
Otherwise this is a pay-forplay and the word already exist and it is PAYOLA
like I say: every country is different. For example in Germany, you need to declare even purchased gear in a video as “commercial” video if you make a tutorial or review.
Read the YouTube terms of service. Reviews of gear sent by the manufacturer absolutely definitely 100% IS “paid promotion” and must carry that warning according to Youtube.
I did, and its not considered promoted video.
Behringer statement is to create provocation, like they did so many times before
“Absolutely definitely” not true; the Terms of Service additionally require that the video ‘is made for’ the manufacturer or their PR agency. Loopop doesn’t make videos for Behringer (or Korg, Roland etc.).
Where does it say that? Can you provide a link? I also have read the rules around when to add a paid promotion tag and nothing about free gear reviews is mentioned.
Don’t forget, each country has its own guidelines when it comes to tagging of advertising, etc.
You must actually create a video to see this warning about when to apply the ‘paid promotion’ tag.
seems like a thing in US. If I press on the paid promotion button, they say it’s for promotion that is paid but not free gear.
I personally am a fan of Behringer. I have a eurorack with many of their modules and they’re not only dirt cheap but they work as advertised. I get on PerfectCircuit and find modules that do the same things or highly convoluted things for 200 to 1000 dollars and it’s just not my cup of tea, especially when can use an Arturia Beatstep to CV my Behringer gear all for under 500 bucks and I get Analogue V on top of it all. I have one Dreadbox effects module and a SIMPLE BL2 ADSR and the rest are Behringer. 2500. 2600. 921. And two more 900 series on the way and that will probably be the last two modules I’ll need. (A filter module and another ADSR) This entire setup works great and I push it through an old Realistic Radio Shack mixer before it hits the Alesis (because the effects outs and the two OSCS are on seperate Mono Channels that all combine from one mixer to the next, not to mention that I have several guitar pedals for effects on the output side as well for my Behringer TD3) This hate for Behringer is just idiotic. They’re selling their shit for peanuts compared to other manufacturers and if the other guys don’t like it maybe they should stop selling “useless whirligig 2999 LED thingy with steep learning curve” for 600 bucks.
People don’t hate them for making cheap gear.
Loopop literally did: When you made the offensive video about Peter Kirn and started copying affordable products from existing manufacturers with zero innovation (swing), I became disgusted with your corporate culture, which I see now includes spreading lies like you did now.
I have a bunch of Behringer synths and love them. I’ve also watched a ton of loopop reviews. He seems completely straightforward and always explains his relationship to the manufacturers. Behringer has a history of being petty. I believe loopop on this one.
First point, true. They “need to get paid for their time”.
Second point, true. They explicitly requires to disclose the source of video funding. If they need to get paid then why the lack or transparency? If a synth is good, is good. If it sucks, it sucks. Loopop do a $200 Roland and a $5000 3rd Wave. Is this a pay gap? Why not a $300 behringer if it is cheaper to buy meaning he would get more money from video views since he got it for cheap in the first place? I dont need a $5000 synth review, I cant afford it. I need a review on a $300-$4000 synth to see if it is worth my while because that money can be food or rent. THIS IS WHY REVIEWS EXIST!
Third yes, it is chic to hate on Behringer and love Teenage Engineering. Yes behringer needs to hire someone to do their social media who is better than whomever is currently doing that job AND that same person needs to stop being a yes-man and plant face to Uli and say “NO”.
Everyone is still free what he reviews. And if Looop doesn’t feel like it or doesn’t do it, it’s his decision and you should respect it. There are enough other channels on YouTube that review it. You don’t have to do everything.
Edited your name: please be friendly
Massive bingo.
While Behringer’s ego clearly lacks any self-awareness by constantly fronting this weirdo-“just one of the boyz”-routine, in an attempt to make consumers believe they aren’t equally cutthroat & identical to every other Huge Tech Corporation (*cough* yet these critics have no problem supporting…); the hypocrisy you point out really isn’t surprising when you consider where the community has found itself these days and where the biggest sources of product/sound trends, interest & coverage comes from.
When you look at the costs involved, the visual & creative “mystique” of premium hardware, nevermind the fact that these pretty toys make for perfect unobtanium drool-fodder for us plebians to gawk at on Instagram, or a blinking Sci-Fi cockpit that idles as a backdrop in your next “100% honest/unbiased/unscripted ‘review’ for yet-another-complimentary-endgame-worthy-unit” video*!
†(I believe it was the virtuous Benn Jordan who listed “aesthetically-pleasing gear porn” as being essentially the only use his massive Eurorack modular rig saw? With a likely value in the high-five-figures+)
And the contradictory gatekeeping for things like this, the cultish attitudes & selective moral biases, the rising prices for exlusivity & production/component scarcity (artificially and otherwise) all gets exponentially worse when Eurorack is involved. Now, who do you think tends to be igniting most of this Behringer Mob time and again?
In the end I’m just so tired of this endless condescending virtue signalling… The hivemind seems all too happy to forget that Mutable Instruments turned its back on the hobby, partly because its community makers overwhelmingly passed on the intended OSHW-spirit, and instead cloning the FREE—yet profitable—Dead Horse & bleeding it bone dry…
This is literally the same thing Behringer did, YEARS after the Modular hobby has been oversaturated with equally-expensive clones, but “coincidentally” it ONLY BECAME A PROBLEM once Behringer allowed us lowly poors to finally have one lmao! Like some hyper-inflated charade was becoming a lil’ too close to crumbling?
You might not understand the whole situation. Red Means Recording made an emotional video a couple months ago detailing why he is getting out of the gear review game. And it’s precisely because of the free gear. You understand that if you receive this gear as a gift, selling the gear as a tax liability. Since you received it for free. It’s considered a capital gains. So he went from wishing that he had some cool gear, to being flooded with more gear than he knew what to do with. To be honest, all manufacturers should send the gear for free, as well as pay creators for their time. Many of them don’t.
Benn Jordan made a video on the subject; you should watch it (how influencers break the law); Red Means Recording as well. Loopop is pretty transparent on the subject; he gets units sometimes “for review” sometimes for free; sometimes not; and you come to his videos mostly for an in-depth tutorial; less so for a review. Also he’s not payed by brands (and I wonder if he should be like divkid doing tutorials for eurorack module); so at some point “free shit” is not a source of income; as much as it can influence you.
And the critics formulated by loopop in his post are very well deserved and are not “dogpiling”. They shouldn’t always get a free pass for their shady sh*t.
Behringer lying is hardly a surprise, but what the hell is with the writing on this article? What on earth is ‘A steep thesis’? It’s like an AI found a thesaurus.
I’m a non native. I could write you the article in four languages if you want 😉
This gives me more respect for Loopop and even less respect for Behringer. They definitely need to employ someone with basic PR skills. Starting an unnecessary public argument with one of the best youtube synth reviewers when you already have a questionable reputation is not the smartest move for a company to make.
It will not matter whom they hire when the person at the very top orchestrates, instructs, and permits this kind of conduct. Uli is the company in many ways and if you have ever known ex employees and more importantly current ones, you will understand that he micromanages everything. E V E R Y T H I N G. These individuals are empowered by methods and mindset.
so he’s basically the elon musk of music gear
Too me it sounds like guerilla-marketing by Behringer to promote their Toro synthesizer and Synth Anatomy has helped them quite a bit with this article. Honestly, who needs a Toro these days? It is a waste of resources in 2023, isn’t it?
No one ever pays me in synthesizers. 😭
Behringer has once again proven their utter lack of comprehension and representation of the Synth community, which thrives on warmth, respect, innovation, and camaraderie. Their unbecoming tendency to bully those who dare to voice a difference in business vision further underscores their deplorable approach to dealing with people.
This company’s sole focus on profit leads them to undermine honest and open reviewers with deceitful tactics. Their eagerness to resort to dishonesty when faced with transparency is a damning reflection of their business ethics, or lack thereof.
They hear very much about opinions of users. But maybe less about opinions of youtubers. I can live with that….
@Vic Very well said, thank you!
I get your sentiment but… “Sole focus on profit”? I think you’ve had a few too many cups of the Kool-Aid.
Doesn’t it stand out as weird to you that after YEARS of makers in the Eurorack community taking everything they could out of Mutables open designs; from re-formatting & compacting, to adding more features & changes, but in MOST cases simply Ctrl+V cloning & re-selling all of Mutable’s modules with a different faceplate at equally-expensive prices or more, that everyone in the hobby was just HAPPY AS A CLAM to be re-producing, re-PROFITING, and most-of-all buying these alternative clones @ the usual boutique prices (because they were made to be accessible for good reason, and everyone was glad to have access!).
But then suddenly, the community is up-in-arms, disgusted with Behringer & their HUBRIS!
…because for the first time in a decade *EVERYONE* can afford these discontinued modules…?
The premium clones & frankly-amazing evolutions are still available & exclusive for you top-spenders; Right now there’s a brand-new “Clouds” available from one of the Big Popular Cloners, at a whopping 18hp and for the low, low price of only ~$300!
It’s even proudly described as “A 1-to-1 direct ‘rEpLiCa’ of the Mutables Clouds modules that uses the original Official Firmware & compatible with its alternatives.” This is nothing new & didn’t involve much original effort beyond drawing up a nice new faceplate, clicking the auto re-route in KiCAD & thinking up a vaguely fog-like name, but hey that $300 should go… somewhere!
I think Behringer actually put MORE effort into some of their clones, some that save us from spending even MORE money, like adding functions to the module that the OG only offered by buying an additional expander! Or moving inconvenient rear-PCB jumpers to the front face or as a menu option so we don’t have to disassemble our rack every time we want to change the master LFO from a Sine to a Saw! But what’s the problem?
Doesn’t this community, uhhh—what were your words?: “Thrive on warmth, respect, *INNOVATION* & camaraderie”?
stop misunderstanding what the problem is here, they copied several products that are still sold by their respective company; the keystep, make noise maths, and several other modules by intellijel or xaoc; which is absolutely not the same as reissuing old or discontinued or open source hardware. Nobody is really complaining about mutable clones.
Also let’s not forget the awful antisemitic bullsh*t directed toward Peter Kirn.
So what I gather from this is Behringer offered review copies to Loopop way back, he said no because of the Kirn thing. So he would have to buy them if he wanted to review them. So Behringer maybe correct on that he would not get a free review copy. However, I’m sure Behringer do send out free review copies to other reviewers. So they are wrong on that!
Behringer doesn’t realize that people who buy a synth and people who stick with and buy multiple synths over the years are two different populations. Their raucous approach appeals to the former, and who knows, there may be money success in that. Moog already had to sell and is no longer the employee-owned Moog that we knew. I admit, the Crave was my gateway synth, followed by the Pro1. But now, no more B synths for me, and it’s been that way for years.
Its just synthesizers. No reason to get panties in a bind. Peter Kirn..meh. Loopop…meh. Ill still buy Behringer stuff.
Apathy, ahoy! Standards and morals are for dorks!
It’s just a bunch of youtubers getting butt-hurt. Give me cheap synths and let the kids have their drama. I have my standards, ethics and morals. None of them involve electronics.
yikes, a lil embarrassing for Behringer. but hey who hasn’t argued and been wrong on the internet at least once.
however the dogpiling on them for developing recreations is so silly and dumb. I’m a big fan of Loopop, and hope this all gets resolved peacefully.
Now where’s that Pro VS? I’ve been trying to order one- it’s fabulous. LOL
wtf? who cares. this childish gossipy crap is getting tiresome.
Whoever buy their product support that crap
You want a Behringer synth? Pay for it, dude! Why should they send free stuff to people that make a living out of reviewing their (and similar) products? Behringer is not a nonprofit organization.
No, he don’t want any of their synths or get involve with them and beringer send free synth to all major reviewers, its just an excuse to create provocation,
I’m not referring specifically to Loopop, but speaking in general. There are many other youtubers that make a living out of reviewing synths/pedals/guitars/etc., and get many of them for free. Do you think they are going to make any unbiased, critic review?
No review is unbiased. They are always biased because you have a relationship with the developer as a reviewer. If you are small you are also biased becase you review stuff you love. In the beginning with 1k or 2k subs, you can buy stuff for review, but if you get more and more famous, you team up sooner or later with developers. This is how Media, Synth Influencer, etc. works. Even 20 years ago without YouTube.
Good other example is AudioPilz, he made it without but it’s a different category of channel. He makes entertainment and not only technical reviews.
I think its not worth to talk about because behringer talk about free synth only to create a drama out of nothing. The edited comment on facebook shows that very clearly.
Synthanatomy should stop covering Behringer products, too. The company has repeatedly shown complete disregard for reviewers, journalists and other manufacturers.
Sometimes you have to be brave and take a moral stand instead of hiding behind excuses like, “Oh, readers are interested in [latest stolen design].”
Should also he stop writing about Moog and Teenage Engineering for obvious price-gouging of customers?
Moog are not overpriced, you get what you pay for.
Did you have to send your new Minimoog back to the facktory for a fix like the first 1,500 customers?
Never happend, there was no moog recall ever, you just made it up
Loopop always starts his videos with “I received this unit for free…” It’s kinda irritating TBH. With his amount of subs, he can afford to buy. Also, he never mentions price, like it’s of no concern to people, I don’t want to watch a full review only to find out later it’s unobtanium by cost. Of course, the cost of a synth is of no concern to him as he is getting them for free.
Ok and Frodo, give it a break and stop trying to tell the owner of this site how to run his site.
So he is objective and transparent up front.
But its all nonsense. Loopop don’t review beringer products because he don’t like them. Behringer say its about free product is simply a lie to make a provocation. They send free product to reviewers.
Your featuring a Behringer unit the other day that took Tom Whitwell’s work without credit, and comparing it favourably to the ALA version, was certainly a review. You promote their gear all the time. Which you are free to do. But don’t pretend here you don’t.
It was a piece of news. Maybe you should check my reviews before writing this.There are big difference between a news and a review.
The ALA is a clone of the Mutable Instruments Things Ears like the Behringer. With the difference that the Mutable Instruments was made in collaboration with Tom Whitwell. He created the Mikrofon module in the beginning but MI took it over for further development. The module then also become open-source and Behringer and ALA are clones of it.
verstehe behringers strategie nicht und verstehe die bissigkeit unter usern und nicht-usern nicht, wenn man auf behringer zu sprechen kommt. was mich an b nervt, ist dessen tesla-hafter grössenwahn im mantel der weltbeglückung. mein gott, soll er sein geschäftsmodell der bedarfsdeckung doch praktizieren. machen ja schliesslich viele firmen so. aber der wind, den b darum macht ist echt drüber. die verkaufszahlen sprechen doch für sich. wer kaufen mag, und 2023 immer noch mehr kisten um sich rumstapeln mag, kann das doch tun. aber dieses sektenhafte isoliergehabe der sogenannten b.-community: wer nicht für uns ist, ist gegen und… brrrr. gruselig! reiss dich zusammen uli! du hast doch alles erreicht. n ethik freifahrtsschein kriegste aber trotzdem nicht. wirtschaftlicher erfolg rechtfertigt schliesslich nicht alles. howgh!
Why is “falsely” in the title? Who knows the one and only truth?
I see only two opposite arguments. And I see , that Loopop who made this poor “Kirn” joke an “offensive affair”. So here are two partie that are not friends obviously.
and why B blocked Loopop on FB? They don’t give him further option to address the allegation. And where Loopop responded to the claim, he was blocked by the B social media team.
Behringer made the statement about loopop not the other way around and its clear they wanted this to happen.
Of course you’re not offended. I think I’m going to expose you on Reddit. I have all of your info!
Are you getting paid by B.
Fuck Uli and fuck Behringer. Wish the posers would stop supporting this trash ass company.
Behringer gear sound good and it cost less. To me this is very good! Other people van play with Roland boutique maybe…
same here. some guy on youtube made a stink. boohoo.
Uli’s comment was definitely crappy and behringer has a history of bad behavior but at the same time I think “synthfluencers” need to come off of their moral high horses and think of themselves less as individual content creators and more as public utilities that are where they are because they’re fulfilling a public good.
It’s great that some of them have managed to turn a private passion for music gear into a side hustle that pays some or all of their bills. And it’s undeniably cool to get free or discounted gear. But because of this, they don’t have to make the same decisions as your average bedroom studio synth enthusiast with little access to review gear. The bedroom synthesist on a limited budget will buy the Behringer Pro-800 for $400 while the synthfluencer gets a free or discounted OB-X8…and then go on a tirade against behringer. They might even be right about behringer, but you can’t help but feel your eyes rolling out of your head while listening to them.
Personally, I’m annoyed I won’t get the in-depth pro-800 video tutorial I’ve come to rely on from loopop, and I’m annoyed at both Uli and Ziv for this. Uli is a jerk, but Ziv, bobeats, sonic state and others refusing to do videos feels less like a principaled moral stand than it does depriving the audiences on which they depend of their expertise.
Christ, a little entitled are you? So they make an ethical decision and you’re bothered because you can’t make a decision unless someone else tells you what to buy?
Behringer is not the only company that make affordable stuff; look at the east beast / west from cre8audio; look at dreadbox; even korg.
Behringer is called out for their frankly despicable moves and they deserve it. Nobody owes you a full tutorial of a product by the way; and there are plenty of reviews of the pro-800 on youtube if that’s your issue.
It’s endlessly hilarious to me that people are genuinely upset about the ‘ethics’ of businesses and how that defines them as individuals.
If you care to write that you are also in the game
some folks think there’s things that are more important than some youtube guy pissing on a companies customer facing forum. abortion, guns violence, right wing extreme, you know *real* world stuff.
this is just blog-drama. the worst form of drama beyond soap operas.
and you are participating in it, so it must be more interesting than drama 😉
i participate because I’m one of your trolls. you participate because it drives up ad revenue – and if you deny that, you’re lying.
thanks to be a troll 😉
You participate because you order one or some of their products, and if you deny that, you’re lying.
I deny not that I order already Behringer products. If you follow Synth Anatomy, you have probably often read that I support the vintage clones and newly developed products but not copies of existing products on the market just to say “we are cheaper”. The same applies to the communication style of them that’s why I don’t make any review of the products. Cheers
I think the whole thing is more complicated. Manufacturers will send a review unit/s, which in many cases are passed around between reviewers, and are not kept by the reviewer. I suppose this is a chicken and egg situation, manufacturers need to get their product reviewed, reviewers will not review only if they are sent it free.
No, behringer wrote this only to create this drama, it was uncall for and the screen capture of the same massage shows it was just for stunt. Anyone can afford behringer synth, getting it free is the least important factor for a youruber like loopop
So Loopop would still do these 50 minute long snoozefest videos if people didn’t send him free gear, right? Nah. There’s definitely some truth to Behringer’s statement. Then all of the influencers come out of the woodwork ready to pounce. “But Peter Kirn!! #nvr4get” But that guy talked a lot of shit before Behringer returned fire. I wouldn’t have retaliated but I don’t blame Behringer for wanting to return fire. All these people do is put Behringer down to lift themselves up.
And they did apologize.
Anyway, synth influencers are just pissed because Behringer no longer needs them. Of course “free gear” is a huge reason for their videos. And ad revenue. And Patreon. And self-promotion for their music. They’re not doing this out of the goodness in their hearts. No idea what Ben Jordan is doing there in the twitter thread.. whenever there’s a “controversy” Ben is there to insert himself into the picture for clout. God, influencers are just the worst.
Truth.
Behringer try to make a drama out of nothing, the edited comments show this very clearly.
Everyone loves a bit of disruption until it happens to them.
The thing about getting stuff for free I dont trust it. I rather have someone buy a synth, review it, and return it, resell, loan or something similar. Then I’ll listen. Also, what synthfluencers do with the free stuff they get anyways? Resell it? Keep it? If they get stuff for free it is akin getting paid to do a video…. Unless of course Behringer is lying.
Sometimes Loopop say he get the stuff he reviews at a deep discount but, how deep (like Osmose)? In the latest video about Uno Synth X pro he say he got the unit and no money exchanged hands but nothing about if he keeping it or not. We havent got, ever, a video about his studio (or maybe a tiny Sweetwater since he has reviewd plenty stuff).
Why both are wrong: Loopop swinged back about the Swing (pun 100% intended) and Kirn, the dead horse that was unearthed for some more hitting smh. Behringer wants to be the disruptor of the audio gear but they arent very good at it. They do somegreat things like giving plenty MS1s for poor music schools and some other few things but then they get all sketchy and attack without preparing well for the backlash. Behringer need to hire someone to reach media goodwill goals instead of just throwing tantrums w/o notice. So to both parties, just disclose everything.
Why Behringer wins: For real, not siding with Behringer but the “big youtubers” not ever reviewing their stuff is sus af and are glaring ommisions of stuff that should get reviewd to protect the consumer since, you know, thats what reviews should do, right? It aint like Consumer Reports will do a MonoPoly review anytime soon. The way a youtuber portrais themselves is this passionate person that go beyond to take some time to make these videos about minute pros and cons…. However then it gets murky and youtubers need to get paid but what they do on YT aint enough so lets open a Patreon and sell some shirts and sample packs and one might think that enough but it seems it aint so lets have some sponsors like Brilliantly, Nord VPN, Manscape, the green juice thing BUT, these are a niche of a niche… or are they? I mean, BoBeats was a goddamn PSYCHOLOGIST and he quit to become a full time YouTuber?!…. its obvious the money is there but it has a big pixelated block in the accounting sheet… But me? I just like making music and whatever gossip is happening it should not affect what I buy or not buy. Here Behringer is making affordable stuff that seems interesting enough and since they (loopop, bobeats and the rest of the antiBehringer crew) wont review it, I aint watching their channel. Am I ever going to buy a 3rd Wave or a Osmose? I dont think so, I cannot afford it, will I watch a video about that stuff? I dont think so either, I’ll use that time to look for reviews of stuff in my radar. This wont make a big dent on Behringer plans and actually backfire the youtubers unless they get transparent.
all these oddly loyal hipsters deeply invested in boutique hobby gear, making monotonous fart zap noises in their bedroom, claiming moral high ground. i totally agree with the comment about synthtubers’ reviews being a public utility in many ways. maybe YouTube and how it treats content creators is the real issue. some people get mad at Behringer for revealing early renditions and publicly announcing products early, but that’s ugly entitlement. some people get mad at the concept of clones, that’s insane. nearly everything these days is a recreation or revision. honestly would be cool if Behringer did more Volca types or Electribes, seeing that Korg is behind the ball. I wish news outlets like synthanatomy and others would be more true to Journalism and stop fueling the stupidity. where are all the torches n pitchforks for the endless eurorack modules and guitar pedals. maybe take a break and get some perspective, we can all coexist
I think you can answer yourself why, their true face is right up their, but maybe you don’t want to see it.
I am not going to buy any Behringer hardware if they are such a bunch of a**holes…
more for me! TEEHEE!!!
No loopop don’t care about it much, its all started because behringer tried to make a drama out of nothing. Again…
Make fucking music and shut the fuck up. Fuck both parties.
Laughable! Mr Manual et al getting butthurt when someone calls him out. Most of this little click of YT gear ”reviewers” have ZERO integrity. Uncritically plugging all sorts of sh** for money/free gear whilst ridiculously claiming they’ unbiased. Some of them even virtue signalling woke bs that has f# all to do with music or gear. At least Behringer doesn’t pretend to be anything but stone cold business. Thankfully there are still a few channels taking themselves and us – the audience seriously. Infomercial marking on content should be mandatory. I wouldn’t be surprised if the EU implement this.
No, you can have a business and still have morals.
Behringer would gladly send loopop free synths but loopop doesn’t want anything to do with them. The edited comment says it all.
Has Behringer ever made a product which main quality was not incredibly low price? Few people buy Behringer if they think they can afford better. Cheap knockoffs is known in all kinds of consumer products. AFAIK Behringer also owns other brands, like Midas, that make better products at higher prices. I don’t know what the business or marketing terms are, since I never went to business school, but I’m sure they exist.
Bad advertisement is also advertisement.
It seems that “B.” likes to be the bad guy, or they do not care and leave their article posters free hand. I can unterstand both – getting free stuff for doing a review is fair and with cd reviews quite common since ages. we as watchers can decide if it is bullshit or quality and if we switch the review of. with cd reviews i find the “bad reviews” also interesting – so it is the same with gear for me.
It is good advertisment when you don’t like these youtubers 😀 In the end, one is making instruments we can use, the other one short-lived videos.
Loopop makes informative videos that help people learn about electronic instruments and you can feel his devotion, gratitude and professionality in anything he does. He supports and respects our little community.
Behringer is an unrespectable zero moral leech that creates mostly e waste and do this kind of shit every now and then.
There there, well said Huoy.
@Huoy, you’re literally posting from a device made by slaves. What if I don’t think the videos are informative, or feel the devotion? What if I think it’s amateurish and dull? Do I have a right to think that? What if the electronic music commmunity is actually quite large? You say it’s ‘ours’ because you seem to badly want it to be? Individuals take precedence over community, always. Do you feel people have a right to disagree with you? Do you feel you have the right to judge people’s morality because you think you’re better and smarter than they are? Perhaps you are an expert judge of e-waste, because the e-waste is YOU.
There are alot of questions, I will try my best to answer you in a respectful manner.
“What if the electronic music community is actually quite large?”
It’s not. but everything is relative.
“You say it’s ‘ours’ because you seem to badly want it to be”
Yes, it’s mine (I’m proud to be part of it) , others and possibly yours if you want. What’s your point?
“Do you feel you have the right to judge people’s morality because you think you’re better and smarter than they are?”
I never talked about any individual treats here, ask yourself why you feel being judged when I only wrote about Behringer and loopop.
“you’re literally posting from a device made by slaves”
Actually my computer is made in japan 🙂
again, what’s your point? What do “slaves” have to do with this topic?
“Do you feel people have a right to disagree with you”
Sure, and I have the right to disagree with them and we all should be respectful to each other in the process of doing that. If you resort to calling me “e waste” because you don’t agree with me you’ll probably feel your point is too weak to defend with logic.
It is hurting to see grown ups argue like this (referring to many of the comments).
I feel many arguments are based on feelings and not thoughtfulness and respect and neither of us have all the facts from all sides with their feelings, thoughts, morale and even childhood that do influence eachd an anyone of us every day.
I don’t care which side you are on but please respect each other, talk like grown up’s because no one is gaining anything from using bad language and personal accusations. Calm down.
If we, a normally friendly bunch of people can’t argue like we’re older than 16 then what are we showing the next generation of kids? What are we telling our neighbors both irl and in the net? Who are we to give inputs on bigger arguments if we can’t even handle this one with bilateral respect?
Should we even have the right to wote since a democracy in a way is about agreeing about things we don’t totally agree upon? Yet here we are, talking bad about other commenters.
Everything is connected, nothing in this world is separated and some people have a different moral compass in this connectedness than other people, is that really something wrong? Doesn’t everyone have the right to have an opinion and at the some time be treated with respect?
If you don’t think so why argue or share your?
There is a big difference in telling what you think and to argue over and over again about why someone’s opinion is wrong (or why your is right).
Can we just agree on the fact that we disagree and continue to be grown ups and have this conversation without personal attacks? It’s not about being right, it’s all about respect, perspective on life and different morale compasses.
If you don’t like it then don’t use it, if you don’t like their videos don’t watch them. Easy.
According to my own view of life I try to not buy new synths/gear, because I think it’s better for the planet and my pocket to buy used. According to my view I think that B is acting bad since Loopop/YouTubers and media are showing us what they think about stuff and if they don’t want to show a particular thing then that’s their decision. If I was a synthtuber of a magazine I would also like to have the right to choose what to cover and if someone think that I do it wrong, well do a Trump and start your own media outlet.
In this I also respect SynthAnathomy writing this article. It’s not my media outlet.
I sincerely hope I didn’t made any personal attacks, English is not my native language and I sincerely want everyone to talk nicer and with respect to each other.
If it’s one thing that blood cancer with unexpected life guarantees has reached me then it’s that there are battles worth fighting for and those that’s never should existed. I think this battle between friends (readers) never should have existed.
Why do I not believe for a second that Synth Anatomy cares one bit.
If Uli called with a deal this guy would jump right on board as he’s been pushing B’s marketing every single time!
If Uli makes me an offer, you’re the first to hear about it. I can also send you a very personal email 😉
Crikey, another thousand message storm in a tea cup.
Sorry, but your justification to continue to cover Behringer is complete bullshit. You know who they are, they are hurting this community, and you are complicit. I will no longer read or watch anything you do until I hear you have changed this policy and you stop giving them any attention whatsoever.
No problem with this decision
I hate to see negative energy sent in Loopop’s way. That channel has been a valuable resource for getting the straight information when an instrument is released.
I don’t understand how anybody is expecting Loopop or any other YT video creator to make these videos for free. From writing to shooting to editing, I’m betting it takes a serious amount of time. At least a couple (long) days. I don’t know how much a couple days of your life is worth, but it’s probably worth more than a $399 synthesizer.
If it is technically “paid promotion,” then don’t you think somebody should at least be getting paid?
Also I have to agree that Synth Anatomy should not cover Behringer products. It’s too disruptive.
I like Loopop reviews, but always knowing that they have some promotional intentions.
Also, I’ve noted that lately his reviews cover less and less “negative points” of the products. And I don’t think the products are getting better and better…
I have cancelled my Behringer pro-800 order.
Will get DSI/Sequential after the war.
When I make music I want to feel good about the gear I use, and this wouldn’t be the case with Behringer gear. I know some details of an example where Behringer cloned a piece of gear from a currently-existing company – appearance, sound etc – and the company simply doesn’t have the financial resources to fight it. This is not a company that will see any money from me.
lol
I know for sure that the reviewers on Sound on Sound magazine always have to send back the gear they test. Often they whine about letting a top-notch pro-piece go. Also sometimes they’ll end a glowing review by admitting that they bought the gear.
but SOS can’t be compared to a YouTube channel. SOS has a revenue from ads, sold magazins, subscriptions, etc, while YouTube relies on YouTube ads that are oft only 1-10€ for 1000 clicks minus taxes etc. you end up with not a lot for a week of work or so.
“Behringer lied and the other one is right because I (nobody) said so”
Loopop is beastmode always,his videos are superb. F Behringer clones of the small guys,I’m all for out of date expensive gear but come on, leave arturia and xaoc alone. It’s just hubris and greed